Everything you need to know about weapons

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Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Izual on Wed Jun 01, 2011 3:36 pm

This one is a major piece of news. You know that Surface Dwellers doesn't like to inherit things from Fallout 2 or from FOnline SDK version. We're not creating "another Fallout MMORPG", and thus weapons and combat system in this game will be a LOT different than in any other Fallout-based game.

In the regular Fallout/FOnline experience, it's easy to get guns - some may say it's even too easy. It's also quite easy to get ammunition. Lifespan of a weapon is also quite short, because in the other FOnline servers you'll most likely die before emptying its clip even once. And even if you do survive until then, how many bullets will you shoot with a pistol? Not many, because death is common and guns are plentiful.
However, in Surface Dwellers, the hunt for a gun will be a major part of the game. You won't get a weak pistol as soon as you start the game; a lucky team-mate will have to lend you one, or you will have to find one out by yourself. But the hunt won't be over, because you will have to look for bullets, or for a better weapon. In a singleplayer game, this would have been quite boring. Here, with the fear of death and numerous team-mates always in the hunt for new bullets, it should be both thrilling and entertaining.

With the above paragraph, you started to understand what I wanted to tell you: that weapons you wield will be part of your identity. They will be so rare - and powerful, for there is no shame to shoot with only a 9mm Mauser - that you could be known as "that guy with the Desert Eagle" or even "the woman with the deadly laser rifle", and so on. Nuance is subtle between "I'm the Big Guns guy" and "I'm the M60 guy", but difference between these two is huge. You will not be forced to specialize into one weapon, but you will rarely find a better weapon that the one you already have - even if what you have is a basic pistol.
Deterioration will be there, yes, because we don't want people to spend years with the same weapon. However, it will be so slow that you can certainly expect playing one month (or even more, who knows) with the same gun.

At some point, if you're lucky enough, you also should have two or more weapons. Who would like to fight a pack of zombies with a scoped sniper rifle? Nobody! When - if at all - alone and rushes by zombies, consider switching for a pistol, it's more effective against numerous enemies. What I'm saying here can seem a bit weird for a player used to Fallout. Nobody would ever exchange his rifle for a pistol when rushed by enemies (actually, in any situation). Right! But that's not how Surface Dwellers work. Each weapon will have its own advantages and drawbacks, and depending on the situation you won't take the same weapon. Of course, some weapons will be better than others, but you won't be called a fool if, according to the situation, you put your laser rifle in your backpack and get your laser pistol instead.

Now that was for the general plans about weapons. Mind hearing about our plans for combat?


Modifying weapons involved searching for their real life equivalent.

Combat will be real-time. I love turn-based, but what would a survival-horror multiplayer game look like with turn-based battles? It wouldn't be thrilling at all! So, yes, it will be real time. Your APs (action points, used to shoot/reload) will replenish with time just like in the usual FOnline servers. However, we took the time to think about this actions-cost-action-points system. It's a great system, of course. But our opinion is that if we were taking it as it is into Surface Dwellers, all its potential wouldn't be used.

Let me explain this.
When you are fighting in real-time FOnline, only shooting is really troublesome for your APs. Reloading, for every weapons, takes two APs, in other words, quite nothing. Reloading is just a small detail that breaks a bit the battles, an important detail, yes, that allows some strategies. But, come on. Two APs?

In Surface Dwellers, we didn't copy/past the weapons stats from FOnline SDK or from Fallout 2. We looked inside books and over the internet to find what a weapon was really able to do, and compared it to Fallout 2 stats. Most of the time, it was quite matching, but sometimes it wasn't. So we decided to write our own stats. And, tell me... Why would reloading a laser rifle be the same thing as reloading a needler pistol?

I won't reveal everything right now, I just want to give a few examples so that you can understand what I meant in the latest paragraphs. Let's compare the stats* of a few weapons:

| 9mm Mauser | Sniper Rifle | Flamer | Plasma Pistol |
Range:
20
100
5
25
AP to shoot:
1
8
3
5
AP to reload:
2
2
8
6
Clip capacity:
18
1
5
4

As you can see, the Sniper Rifle has a quite unlimited range - we'll see if AI can still react! He will also deal tremendous damage, of course. But as you can see, it takes lots of AP to shoot, and 2 AP to reload - and he has only one bullet in clip! Other rifles, even if they have more bullets in their magazine, can take about 3 AP to reload.
The Mauser has a low range, but, like all the other pistols, and unlike what you may have seen in the other Fallout/FOnline games, you will be able to fire continuously with it!
Flamer is interesting - you can fire a few flame-bursts with it, then you have to spend a lot of time reloading. Same for the plasma pistol, that will do a lot more damage than the 9mm Mauser.
Why this time spent in reloading, all these different clip capacities, etc? Because Surface Dwellers is a cooperative game. If you want to use your sniper rifle, going rogue is the best way to die. However, if you get to cover some flamer guys with a few rifles, then it's going to be more interesting. Tactics and strategy all the way!

Throwing weapons - except for their damage - are left quite unchanged, their range was enhanced a bit. Unarmed/Melee weapons are left quite unchanged, except for their damage - more will change about them in the future. We want every weapon to be useful and as deadly as another, and as different as possible. For now, only Fallout 1/2 weapons are implemented, but with time we shall add more low-tier guns.

Of the critical hits, hardest of all the things to balance and set up, I shall not speak yet. Only thing I can say about this matter is that we will get closer to a normal RPG system, for example Lionheart's: critical hits that do about 150% or 200% damage, with a side-effect (knockback, knockout, cripple, ...). The magical numbers that transform a 10-20 damage dealing pistol into a lethal widow-maker will be forever gone - May the winds blow till they have waken'd death!

*Stats will be changed if needed during CBT and OBT. No number here is carved in stone.
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Harald on Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:01 pm

Wow, that actually sounds quite good! It always seemed strange for me about the reload times/AP cost - how the heck can you reload a frickin' minigun just as fast as a 10mm pistol? I like this!
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Wow..

Post  Overdose on Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:51 am

Wow, I can't wait.

When this comes out, this has got to be the best FOnline engine I've seen. Well... At least by reading this it seems that way.
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Harald on Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:31 am

Overdose wrote:When this comes out, this has got to be the best FOnline engine I've seen. Well... At least by reading this it seems that way.
What do you mean? The engine is untouched, all these changes are going to be playable only on SD server...

Anyway, lately came up with a question. I presume some shotguns (or maybe even the hunting rifle) has a bullet-by-bullet reloading, would the AP cost increase if you have to load in more bullets?
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Overdose on Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:42 am

Harald wrote:
Overdose wrote:When this comes out, this has got to be the best FOnline engine I've seen. Well... At least by reading this it seems that way.
What do you mean? The engine is untouched, all these changes are going to be playable only on SD server...

Anyway, lately came up with a question. I presume some shotguns (or maybe even the hunting rifle) has a bullet-by-bullet reloading, would the AP cost increase if you have to load in more bullets?

Ah, Never mind I tend to ramble.
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Warder on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:21 am

Who would like to fight a pack of zombies with a scoped sniper rifle? Nobody! When - if at all - alone and rushed by zombies, consider switching for a pistol, it's more effective against numerous enemies.
That is totally true.

Flamer is interesting - you can fire a few flame-bursts with it, then you have to spend a lot of time reloading.
Love it. Hope that long reloading time and lack of ammo will transform big guns into real squad level support weapons, not just a meat grinder.

Can not say that i like this critical hits concept, headshot should be almost lethal, not just twice painful, but it`s only my opinion. After all, we are going to shoot zombies, and everybody knows zombies don`t die easily :wink:

How high will be additional AP cost for aimed shots?
Do you plan to raise body parts chance-to-hit penalty in aimed mode?

It will be good to know something about melee combat.
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Izual on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:23 am

Thanks for support :)

Harald wrote:
Anyway, lately came up with a question. I presume some shotguns (or maybe even the hunting rifle) has a bullet-by-bullet reloading, would the AP cost increase if you have to load in more bullets?

For now, shotgun can have two shells, its reload cost is 3 AP. The combat shotgun, that can have 6, has a reload cost of 6 AP.

Edit: @Warder:
How high will be additional AP cost for aimed shots?
For now it is left unchanged, so it's a +1 or +2.

Do you plan to raise body parts chance-to-hit penalty in aimed mode?
Definitely, but not for every weapons. I'd hate to see Mauser-Crippler builds, but I think scoped rifles will have a fair chance to hit any body parts.

It will be good to know something about melee combat.
Heeh, can't say much about it really :grin: Being not an expert in this, I left the AP costs rather unchanged (3 AP to hit.) The only weapons that will need reloading will be the two Cattle Prods (and only the Power Fist for Unarmed) - Supersledge is, for now, scrapped. I want Melee to be a valuable alternative and the Sledgehammer/Yakuza blade to be one of its two best weapons - they will be really good :smile:
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Harald on Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:06 am

Also, you mentioned you will start with absolutely nothing, does this mean it will be quite useful to tag the Unarmed and Small guns in the same time? According to what you are writing it really gives me those old zombie game feeling - ran out of bullets? Why don't you take that baseball bat and hit some zombies!?
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Izual on Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:52 pm

Hehe, yeah :mrgreen:

Actually I don't really have any answer. At this stage of development, I think if I was going to tag Big Guns I'd better tag Unarmed as well, because weapons will be very rare and Big Guns will of course be even rarer than Small Guns. So actually, yeah, for now I'll say tagging Unarmed/Melee would be a good idea. It's not really satisfying on a game-design matter though, so it may change.
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Overdose on Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:43 am

Izual wrote:Thanks for support :)

Supersledge is, for now, scrapped. I want Melee to be a valuable alternative and the Sledgehammer/Yakuza blade to be one of its two best weapons - they will be really good :smile:

:( Dam, I was getting exited using a super sledge on zombies heads.
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  LagMaster on Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:30 am

there probably will be a super sledge hammer, but it will be called Ban Hammer and it will be used by GM, and it's dmg is in Ban Days/Hours not HP(let's hope GMs will not have critical hit builds)
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Harald on Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:58 am

You better run if you see a GM with it :grin:
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Overdose on Sun Jun 05, 2011 3:34 am

Wait, if the mauser is 1 ap to shoot, what about BROF and Fast shot? How will that work?
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  LagMaster on Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:40 am

Overdose wrote:Wait, if the mauser is 1 ap to shoot, what about BROF and Fast shot? How will that work?

infinite shootout!!!!!! hell yeah!

well, since the gameplay is diferent from other FOnline servers, probably the traints and perks will work diferently
am i right?
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Izual on Sun Jun 05, 2011 8:00 am

LagMaster wrote:
well, since the gameplay is diferent from other FOnline servers, probably the traints and perks will work diferently
am i right?

Yes.

Wait, if the mauser is 1 ap to shoot, what about BROF and Fast shot? How will that work?
Brof and Fast Shot (assuming they exist) won't work on the Mauser, for example.
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Re: Everything you need to know about weapons

Post  Ganado on Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:50 am

Thanks for all the info in your post. I agree that the fact that guns will be quite rare will increase the survival aspect, and combined with the other features, keep away from any form of hoarding that happens in other SDK servers. Keep up the good work :)

And the 100 range on sniper sounds amazing. It will be a true sniper rifle. 100 FoV range will be huge, though.
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